#62 – Relational Capacity to Up the Rigor in Learning

• What’s Your Plan for Managing Difference? by Zaretta Hammond (in Learning for Justice)
• Mirrors, Windows, and Sliding Glass Doors by Rudine Sims Bishop (originally in Perspectives: Choosing and Using Books for the Classroom)

#62 Relational Capacity to Up the Rigor in Learning

AVID Open Access
26 min

Transcript

The following transcript was automatically generated from the podcast audio by generative artificial intelligence.  Because of the automated nature of the process, this transcript may include unintended transcription and mechanical errors.

Paul Beckermann 0:00

I really value the relationship that we have here on our podcast. I’ve never met Rena and Winston in person, yet I feel totally comfortable with the two of you. In fact, I don’t even hold back my dad jokes anymore. When you get comfortable with people, you can share, right? It’s the same with our students. The more they know we care, the more they’ll engage.

The topic of today’s podcast is taking relationships to the next level and using those relationships to impact our instruction and planning.

Tech Talk for Teachers is brought to you by Avid.org. With AVID, schools provide the high expectations, access, and support students need to be successful in rigorous courses. To learn more about AVID, visit their website at avid.org.

Rena Clark 0:49

Welcome to Tech Talk for Teachers, the podcast where teachers discuss how technology and teaching best practices can positively transform education to create equitable classrooms for future-ready learners. I’m Rena Clark.

Paul Beckermann 1:04

I’m Paul Beckermann,

Winston Benjamin 1:05

and I’m Winston Benjamin. We are educators,

Paul Beckermann 1:09

and we’re here to share actionable teaching strategies you can implement into your classroom.

Our quote for today is from Zaretta Hammond. She defines culturally responsive teaching as an educator’s ability to recognize students’ cultural displays of learning and meaning making, and respond positively and constructively with teaching moves that use cultural knowledge as a scaffold to connect what the student knows to new concepts and content in order to promote effective information processing, all the while the educator understands the importance of being in a relationship and having a social-emotional connection to the student in order to create a safe space for learning.

All right, there’s a lot to unpack in there, Winston. What’s your take?

Winston Benjamin 1:59

One of the things that I really like about this is that everybody’s always talking about “build relationships, build relationships.” But the thing that I really like is the teacher moves, right? Once you know a student and you have a little bit of knowledge about the actual content area, what are the things that you’re doing to help leverage, or as she puts it, scaffold, connecting learning areas, right? I think those are the parts that really stand out to me. What’s the teacher doing to really make something happen in the classroom?

Rena Clark 2:31

And it’s a very similar takeaway for me. I really zoned in on those words: relationship, connection to student. But then really using that to gather and construct knowledge, to inform your instruction. So it’s that next step. Okay, we talk constantly about the importance of relationships, but then how do you use all of that information you gain from having a relationship with students to actually inform instruction and provide better instruction to meet the needs of those students?

Paul Beckermann 3:03

Exactly, and in our conversation today, we are going to try to do that. We’re going to try to connect relationships to academic success. In other words, how do we move beyond just getting to know students, as you’ve said, to using that knowledge to impact instructional practices?

We’ll start our conversation by reflecting on something else that Zaretta Hammond says about the benefits of getting to know your students. She mentions the practice of using cultural knowledge, and Winston mentioned it as a scaffold, to connect students to content. So, what do you think she means by that, and how might that look in our classrooms?

Winston Benjamin 3:38

I think for me, one of the most important parts is that last time we talked, we talked about the ideas of windows and mirrors and sliding glass doors. I think the part that’s really important is how you are taking those different mirrors and building on each other, right?

So as a Jamaican immigrant, what does it mean that I can connect my experience as an immigrant to the American history, right, of German, Scandinavian, even Irish and Italian coming to America and then moving west? That gives me an opportunity to not only be personally connected to the idea of what immigration did and how those people experienced the U.S., right, but also how the families were pushed and driven to different parts of the country, the push and pull factors, right? So for me, I can see a direct one-to-one relationship of my own personal life and past that now makes it easier to understand the academic discourse that’s going on, for example, in a history class.

I think that part of scaffolding the person’s experiences to the lesson really is the part that drives how I think we can do a little bit more cultural use of knowledge, right? Just build on those small…

Paul Beckermann 4:30

When I think of scaffold, I think of scaffold as connection. It’s that glue, right? That makes you motivated to want to learn about it. It makes it meaningful to want to learn about that.

When I taught English, I always tried to connect whatever the academic topic was first to the student, and then to the academic task. We were doing a character analysis, for instance. The first thing I had them do before they wrote a character analysis essay of a character in the book was write one about themselves. They had to have an overarching statement about themselves, and then have three key points to support that impression of themselves. Once they do that, they kind of get it, and now we can go ahead and analyze a character in a novel or a short story.

Rena Clark 5:50

I think that cuts across content. Similarly, when we focus in on science or mathematics, maybe thinking specifically of science, I think I’ve used this example before, but with extreme weather, you need to connect it to their own experience of extreme weather, and it could be locally. We also have students that are immigrants and have a very different understanding of extreme weather. Maybe because of extreme weather, that’s actually why they’re here.

I also think it’s important that we scaffold for students, but also not force them to be an example or force them to share that experience. We want to encourage them, but sometimes I feel like it’s, “Oh well, you’ve experienced a hurricane, so share that with them.” I think you have to be careful around that, and know your students and make sure to teach with dignity always and show that towards your students.

I also like how you pointed back to the mirrors and windows, and I know as a teacher, it’s important for me to continue to find more windows. So once I make a relationship with students, I actually love to research, so I’m like, “Oh, I don’t really know anything about that.” Now that we’ve talked about this, maybe it’s this religious practice, or why this is happening, or maybe I’m fasting this week and I don’t really know anything about that. I’m going to go read about it, learn about it, so that I have more of an understanding and a window. That’s something I do personally, and I think students, as you said, can also do that for each other, and we can also provide those resources.

Winston Benjamin 7:34

Something I appreciate that you just said is focusing on safety and not tokenizing student experience. Of course, we get to know them one-on-one and hear why they’re here or hear the experiences. But how do we do engagement and pull them in the classroom in a safe way where they’re not the expert of life as a 10-year-old or 12-year-old or 17-year-old? I really appreciate thinking about student safety as a part of that scaffold as well.

Paul Beckermann 8:09

In the areas where I began my teaching career, there were so few minority students that you would be putting the pressure on one or two students in a grade. That’s not fair to that student. Yes, we want to hear their experience, but you cannot be asked to represent millions of people. That’s not right.

Winston Benjamin 8:32

Right. And also, Rena, I totally agree. Thinking about my own experience, having a teacher who would come to me and say, “I learned this about your community” would make it so much easier for me to share myself, because you took the effort to find out a little bit about me. I think that also goes to that whole idea of relationship, right? Trust is earned, and I think that’s another way that we can practice earning students’ trust: by actually doing some research ourselves. So I really appreciate that point you made, just reflecting on my own past.

Paul Beckermann 9:13

Just to tie off what you said there, Winston, we just had an interesting conversation with some of my high school teachers. We were doing a growing-forward activity: how can we take what we experienced last year and try to grow forward because of it? One of the things that came up over and over was that kids would not turn on their cameras. People were teaching to blank screens, except when they shared their pets. And why is that?

Winston Benjamin 9:45

Students feel connected to the teacher. They know something about them.

Paul Beckermann 9:48

Yeah, it wasn’t about the academic content at that point. It’s, “Oh, you want to know something about me as a person? You want to see my pet? Well, here you go.” And now it begins, that connection with that teacher, and that led to more kids leaving their cameras on when it became more than just a business transaction.

Winston Benjamin 10:11

Yeah, that’s… I even do that with my boss.

Rena Clark 10:22

I was just thinking, as we’ve gathered a lot of information, and we’ve talked in other episodes, there are lots of different ways we’ve suggested one-on-one interactions. You can do surveys. You can use Google Forms. You can have younger or older students draw pictures. You can have them do a sharing circle. There are all different types of ways, or community circles in the morning. But once you have that information, how do we go beyond and actually use that information to inform our instruction? How does this affect how we deliver lessons? You kind of gave some, but do either of you have some more examples of how we can actually use that to inform our instruction?

Winston Benjamin 11:04

I think one of the things that is important is knowing my students and where they might need breaks, right? Having just a little bit of knowledge of students, where I know that this student might have ADHD or might just need to fidget or do something like that. So how do I build in an activity in the lesson where students are moving? That’s one instructional move where I’ve allowed for students’ positionality to be valued.

Also, if I’m thinking about leadership, if a student is vocal, or gets in trouble because they talk too much at the wrong time, how do I create an activity in that time that allows that student to use their voice and feel that they’re doing it at the right time? So that’s one thing: how am I building into the lesson, where I’m thinking about the actual problem or the actual skill set of the student, and then allowing a space for that to be either mitigated or supported so that student now is participating? So that’s one way. I hope I’m getting to a little bit of what you’re coming at.

Rena Clark 12:18

No, and I actually just want to add on. What you mentioned and talked about was really this idea of strength-based thinking around students. What are students’ strengths? I know them better now. I know maybe more about what they’re passionate about. But all students have strengths, and many educators need to adjust their thinking and have that asset-based and strength-based thinking, as you identified in your example.

I have a daughter that’s like this. She’s super talkative. She’s going to be an amazing leader, but you need to harness that in a way that’s positive and connected to what the learning is. You can do that even in a conversation with a student, and you say, “You are so good at making connections with people and sharing your ideas. You have such a strong voice. I really think you would be great at leading this group in this and this.” By saying it that way, you’re going to get buy-in. They’re going to get excited, and then they’re going to use that strength for academic growth.

Paul Beckermann 13:24

Another part of that is if we can find a way to make our lessons flexible enough, where we can value each student’s individual experience and perspective so they know that matters, right? It might be a Socratic seminar where your voice matters, your questions matter, your insights matter. Or it might be looking at the standards: where is it tight and where is it loose, right? And can we build choice into some of those loose pieces?

In social studies, you have a standard that explores integration of visual information. Maybe students can draw on their personal perspectives and interests and create a historical map that shows the changes in their own personal community. So they’re tying into things that are about them. Or you could bring in ELA standards, like primary and secondary sources, and have students compare how secondary sources like newspapers reported on their community in relationship to how they see their community, or maybe how their parents see their community, or their neighbors see their community. They could interview family members and get more perspectives. You can tie those personal experiences into the academic, and it becomes so relevant. And not only relevant, it’s telling them that we value your perspectives in relationship to this.

Rena Clark 14:43

I think that’s so important. I was just thinking, I got to be in a fifth grade class the other day. It was really fun. We were doing science, and we were looking at how heating and cooling things changes substances. There are all these white powders, and it’s a little bit of a disconnect for students. They’re still excited because there are flames and they’re heating things, but I started to have a conversation with them just about what are things in your life that you can think about that maybe you’ve heated or cooled and they’ve changed.

I loved the answers. We got the answer of popcorn. We talked about otter pops. We talked about chicken. Someone said pancake mix. They had so many great ideas from their own personal experience, and then when they shared that with students, that actually helped so many of the other kids make that connection and understand our essential question. Without that conversation and that input from those other kids, it wouldn’t have happened if I had just said, “Oh, sugar gets harder.”

Paul Beckermann 15:43

I’ve got to ask you, though, what’s otter pop? Never heard of this.

Rena Clark 15:46

See, we’re expanding your knowledge around here. You don’t know what otter pop is, y’all. I don’t. It’s a tube of juice, and then you put it in your freezer, and it gets hard. It’s like a popsicle that pushes out.

Paul Beckermann 15:59

Push up. We call them push-ups.

Rena Clark 16:01

Okay, there we go, push-up.

Paul Beckermann 16:04

Well, because you push them up in the little plus. Yeah,

Winston Benjamin 16:08

the push pop has the little stick at the end. Oh, there’s that too. Ice

Rena Clark 16:11

cream. Right now, we’re gaining some knowledge about… See, I know that.

Winston Benjamin 16:17

I actually love this. This is really one of the things that I think is important: we’re engaging in small-c culture, right? This idea of ice cream, how to heat things, what you do, that’s part of your learning experience. Sometimes we get caught up in trying to think about culture as “you’re from Afghanistan, so how do I specifically help you make sense of this?” But you could do what you just did, Rena: “You all make heat, or you cool things, or what happens? How does that work in your world?” where students are sharing and engaging with each other. I think that’s such an important way to recognize that it’s not just a big overarching culture. It’s what are the small ways that I can help you connect to this knowledge, which I think is also powerful.

Paul Beckermann 17:09

So how do we build that into instruction? How do we develop those opportunities in our classroom? Because that’s the question, right?

Winston Benjamin 17:17

Yeah, I think that’s a great knowledge of standards. Because you just described, Paul, when you were talking about even thinking about social studies or ELA standards, right, how do I know the standards well enough to bend and include students’ knowledge and information? Rena, you knew science well enough that instead of telling them “sugar gets hard,” you could ask that question, right? Where you bring in voices, and you’re now flipping the classroom, where you flip the information, and they’re the sage on the stage instead of you, right? So I think that having really deep content knowledge and standards knowledge is really important.

Rena Clark 18:01

I think having some of those instructional strategies that create room for it, not just turn and talk, but having some very… And like we talked about before, starting with low-stakes topics and having kids talk back and forth, and then the rigor becomes greater, and once we’ve created that community, it’s higher stakes. I’m thinking similarly around standards. We’ve built community with SEL, but now when we get into these more complex, higher-stakes standards conversations, the students feel comfort. We’re back to safe. They have experience, whether it’s A/B partner talk, and we have structures. Maybe we have sentence stems for them to help engage in that conversation. But they still get to input their experience, and we’ve shown them before that it matters. So I feel like they’re empowered later on when the stakes are a bit higher. I think that’s important.

Paul Beckermann 19:03

Here’s where I think technology really fits in, because technology gives us opportunities to create something beyond a worksheet, beyond answering a simple question. You can create something that takes your cognitive levels to a much higher, more cognitively complex area, where if we’re doing it with other people, not only are we thinking complexly, but we are talking, we are collaborating, we are problem solving together. We can insert our voice here because there’s space within the project. Maybe we’re doing a newscast. Well, personalities and perspectives get brought into that. Maybe we’re doing a podcast, novel idea. Maybe it comes into that, or we’re writing a song as a group, or we’re doing some kind of video presentation. There’s just so much room for the diversity of ideas to come out in that space.

Winston Benjamin 20:00

Yeah, I love that idea because, Paul, you’re mentioning outputs as well, right? We’ve been talking about how you build the input, how students gain their knowledge so that they can make connections, and you’re allowing for the multitude of cultural representation to be the output, right? Do they want to do a dance? Do they want to do something X, Y, and Z? So I appreciate you also mentioning the assessment side of this game, because we’ve all talked about instruction, but how we recognize that students have knowledge and have learned something is also important.

Rena Clark 20:34

So we talk about flexible inputs and outputs, and you talked a lot around student voice and choice. We say it often, but as you’re talking about those outputs, by providing students choice and options, that’s how you can build it in. Maybe you provide some of the options. Maybe they’re student-created options, and then you’re really getting it from the student perspective.

Winston Benjamin 21:00

And it’s time to ask this question: What’s in your toolkit?

Transition Music with Rena’s Children 21:05

Check it out! Check it out! Check it out! Check it out! What’s in the toolkit? What is in the toolkit? What’s in the toolkit? Check it out.

Rena Clark 21:16

So, in my toolkit, I was just talking about this. It’s called the 2×10 strategy. Talk to a student two minutes a day for 10 days straight about something other than your class or your school. I’ve done this, targeting students I’m having the most difficulty connecting with, and it really changes relationships if you are intentional about creating two minutes a day. As we talked about before, you’re talking about pets, not talking about school.

Paul Beckermann 21:50

I was talking to our director of teaching and learning the other day, and she actually mentioned this one. She said this is 100 percent effective for her. This is the most effective strategy she’s ever used in her classroom, that 2×10. So I’m glad you shared it.

Winston Benjamin 22:05

I think one of the things that I’m going to take away is Rena’s idea of going and reading a book about somebody and building your own funds of knowledge, right? I think that’s something I want to continue to build on, so that I always have a repertoire of working and engaging and seeing students’ identities.

Paul Beckermann 22:24

I’m going to steal another piece that Rena mentioned earlier. She talked about voice and choice. I think we need to give choices that allow for student voices to come out. Can students select a topic that’s personally relevant? Can they demonstrate their learning in a way that speaks to them? Do they have room within their responses to bring in their personal backgrounds and their personal stories and their personal relevancy? Those kinds of things will not only motivate, but they’ll make the learning more meaningful.

Rena Clark 22:55

Ooh, so many things in that toolkit! Now it’s time for us to reflect on this conversation and talk about what our one thing is. It’s time for that one thing.

Paul Beckermann 23:14

It’s our one thing.

Winston Benjamin 23:18

My one thing is standards. If you know the standards, you can build out spaces for students.

Paul Beckermann 23:27

I would say my one thing was finding a way to allow students to bring their unique perspectives and backgrounds into a valuable contribution to the learning. We’re valuing it, and it helps to enhance and advance the learning. Rena, you can have a one thing.

Rena Clark 23:45

I mean, it’s kind of a big one thing. It’s kind of the whole conversation: relationships matter, but if you don’t use that information to inform your instruction, then it’s not really helping as much as it could. So I think the one thing is use that information, use that relationship building to actually inform and change instruction and empower your classroom and your students.

Paul Beckermann 24:10

Right, and I really value the relationship that we have here on our podcast. We’ve never actually met each other in person. Well, Rena and Winston have, but I’ve never met Rena and Winston in person. Yet I feel totally comfortable with the two of you. In fact, I don’t even hold back my dad jokes anymore. Say, how does NASA throw a party?

Rena Clark 24:33

I don’t know.

Paul Beckermann 24:35

They plan it. And how does the moon cut his hair? Eclipse it.

Anyway, when you get comfortable with people, you can share, right? It’s the same with our students. The more we know them, the more they know we care, the more they’ll engage, the whole thing. It’s like a quote I heard from Steve Spangler. I don’t know if you know Steve Spangler. He’s a science teaching guru, but he said at a personalized learning conference, “Once you hit the heart, they’ll follow you through fire.” That was the coolest quote because it really speaks to the relationship piece leading to motivation. I really want to challenge all of our listeners out there to reach out and get to know your students, and find ways to integrate that into the academics of your classroom, because we can accelerate learning through relationships.

Rena Clark 25:31

Thanks for listening to Tech Talk for Teachers.

Winston Benjamin 25:35

We invite you to visit us at avidopenaccess.org, where you can discover resources to support student agency, equity, and academic tenacity to create a classroom for future-ready learners.

Paul Beckermann 25:47

We’ll be back here next Wednesday for a fresh episode of Tech Talk for Teachers.

Rena Clark 25:51

And remember, go forth and be awesome.

Winston Benjamin 25:55

Thank you for all you do.

Paul Beckermann 25:56

You make a difference.