#512 – A College Senior’s Perspective on College and Career, with Kailey Gamnis

If you are listening to the podcast with your instructional team or would like to explore this topic more deeply, here are guiding questions to prompt your reflection:

• How can educators help students explore postsecondary options beyond the paths that their peers are choosing?
• What skills do students most need in order to successfully transition from high school to college?
• How can schools help students become more comfortable asking adults for help?
• How should students balance passion with practical career considerations?
• What role can internships and other real-world experiences play in career exploration?
• How can educators help students use AI without sacrificing essential skills and learning?
• What does it mean to help students become brave enough to “go for it” in pursuing their dreams?

• Occupational Outlook Handbook (U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics)
• BigFuture (College Board)
• Choosing a School (U.S. Department of Education)
• Get Money to Help Pay for School: FAFSA (U.S. Department of Education)
• Handshake (official website)

#512 A College Senior’s Perspective on College and Career, with Kailey Gamnis

AVID Open Access
37 min

Transcript

The following transcript was automatically generated from the podcast audio by generative artificial intelligence.  Because of the automated nature of the process, this transcript may include unintended transcription and mechanical errors.

Kailey Gamnis 0:00 Moving from high school to college is a huge transition, and I think for me, I kind of wanted to take that transition and use it to do something really bold and get way out of my comfort zone. Go big or go home, you know.

Winston Benjamin 0:18 The topic for today’s podcast is “A College Senior’s Perspective on College and Career,” with Kailey Gamnis. Unpacking Education is brought to you by AVID. AVID believes in seeing the potential of every student. To learn more about AVID, visit their website at avid.org.

Rena Clark 0:39 Welcome to Unpacking Education, the podcast where we explore current issues and best practices in education. I’m Rena Clark.

Paul Beckermann 0:50 I’m Paul Beckermann.

Winston Benjamin 0:52 And I’m Winston Benjamin. We are educators,

Paul Beckermann 0:55 and we’re here to share insights and actionable strategies.

Transition Music with Rena’s Children 1:00 Education is our passport to the future.

Winston Benjamin 1:04 Today’s quote includes the opening line from a paper — a blog post, “Career and College Readiness: Insight from Today’s Education Leaders.” It reads: “Embarking on a career path can be one of the most influential decisions we can make in our entire lives. Do K–12 students have everything they need to make an informed decision?” That’s really heavy.

Paul Beckermann 1:30 That’s a big question, isn’t it, Winston? Especially that “informed decision” part — that really sticks with me, because we’re going to have decisions we have to make throughout our lives, and oftentimes the success or failure of those decisions, or where we end up because of them, relies on how informed we are when we make them. So the more informed, the better, of course. I think about our high school seniors when they leave us — one of the best things we can do for them is help them be informed about their choices: colleges, career options, or do they want to go military. They need to know what opportunities are in front of them so they can make the best decision possible for themselves.

Winston Benjamin 2:15 I like that. I totally agree. But I also want to say they can change their mind on the decision they made.

Paul Beckermann 2:22 Absolutely.

Winston Benjamin 2:23 Right, because sometimes, as a kid, you make a choice and you’re like, “Oh, I’m informed, I’m locked in,” and then you’re 19, 20, and you’re like, “You know what? Not that person anymore.” And even that is more information. So the ability to say, “You know what, where I was is not where I want to go” — having the ability to change direction and change decisions because they’re informed, I think, is also very important. So yes, we’re preparing them, but their life is also going to prepare them even more to make those decisions.

Paul and I have been through college years ago — we’ve been out of school. The experiences and choices we made, we’re living with them right now. We’re excited to have a guest in our space today: college senior Kailey Gamnis. We’re joining the podcast to help us place this in the context of how a well-informed decision helps you with the choices you make as you finish school and think through the next stages. So we’d like to welcome Kailey. Welcome to our podcast. First, to really help our guests introduce themselves to our audience, we’d like to give you a chance to tell us a bit about yourself — share where you are in your college journey, your career journey. What’s good? What’s the tea, as the young people would say.

Kailey Gamnis 3:58 Yes, that’s perfect. Well, I’m Kailey. I’m 21 years old, and I’ll be graduating this December from the University of Wisconsin.

Winston Benjamin 4:08 All right, all right.

Paul Beckermann 4:09 Congratulations!

Kailey Gamnis 4:11 Thank you. I’m from the Twin Cities originally, so I’m not too far from home. I’ve actually only been here three years — I did my freshman year abroad in Rome, Italy. I went to the American University of Rome, which is a fantastic little English-speaking school in the heart of Rome, and I was a full-time student there for a full year. Then I ended up transferring out, coming back a little closer to home, and I’m studying film — have been the entire time. So I’ll be graduating with a BFA in Film in a couple of months here, which is crazy.

Paul Beckermann 4:49 All right, Rome — I’m in. I’m kind of envious of that experience. That sounds like a lot of fun.

Kailey Gamnis 4:56 It was incredible. It ended up not being a super great fit long-term, but I’m very grateful for the experience. It was amazing — I got to experience a new culture for a time, got to travel, got to meet lots of new and interesting people. It was a great time.

Paul Beckermann 5:17 That’s awesome. Well, let’s go back even a little further — let’s hop back to high school. How did you go about selecting a college to attend, and what was helpful for you in that process?

Kailey Gamnis 5:34 I had a bit of a different experience with that. I was on the fence for a while about whether I even thought college was something I wanted, because I had always known I wanted to go into a creative field, and I thought maybe it wouldn’t be worth it. Just picking a college wasn’t something that really excited me — I never felt like anything was going to be a good fit.

But once I started looking into it, I stumbled upon this school in Rome — there are actually a lot of those all over many countries, colleges you can go to that speak English and welcome students from all over the world. I looked into it and just fell in love with that concept, because moving from high school to college is a huge transition, and I wanted to take that transition and use it to do something really bold, get way out of my comfort zone. Just go big or go home, you know.

Paul Beckermann 6:45 There you go.

Kailey Gamnis 6:45 So that was kind of my experience. My advice, I guess, would be: don’t go where everybody else is going, and don’t feel like you need to follow the grain. Stay home if you want to stay home. Stay close to home if you want to stay close to home. Go far away if you want to go far away. Go to a big school. Go to a small school. I felt like there was a lot of pressure from around me — it felt like all my friends were going to the same couple of schools in the same little area, and I think daring yourself to look outside of that is important, because maybe you’ll decide you want to go to those same schools and that’s where you’ll be happiest, or maybe you’ll find something that fits better for you.

Paul Beckermann 7:41 Yeah, I love that. Be you, right?

Kailey Gamnis 7:44 Exactly.

Winston Benjamin 7:45 Oh, man, that’s a bold statement — be daring enough to be you. So you started this journey jumping across the world by yourself, and you’re almost done with it now. Looking back at high school, what skills helped you the most in college, and what do you wish you had developed when you were just starting? What are some of those things you wish you’d had, and you’re glad you had, in terms of skills?

Kailey Gamnis 8:26 That’s a good question. For me personally, social skills ended up being the big thing I’m glad I got out of high school — learning how to work in groups, work with other people, be an effective teammate. That’s been surprisingly helpful in college. I feel like I’ve done more group projects and more collaboration in college than I ever did in high school, so that was very helpful to go in with. And then those critical thinking skills, learning how to write academic papers and things like that — those obviously carried over very well, and I think that’s true for any major, any field. I’m in a very creative program, but I was surprised at how much I really needed those academic skills I got from high school — gen eds and things like that.

If there’s one thing I wish I had gotten more out of high school — something I felt I really developed more in college — it was feeling more comfortable building relationships with my instructors. I think that’s a personal thing for a lot of people. I had incredible high school teachers who were all very kind and open and welcoming, but authority figures can be daunting to a lot of teenagers, especially. So through college, learning how to actually talk to my professors, not be afraid to reach out and ask for help, and just communicate about what’s going on has been very valuable for me. I think that’s something that could have helped me a lot going in freshman year with that mentality.

Paul Beckermann 10:14 Yeah, sure — and those are some of those things you develop as you get older, as you mature and get more confidence in yourself. I love that. I’m curious — you said you always wanted to do something in the creative realm. How did you decide on your specific college major, and do you have any advice for incoming college students about making that choice?

Kailey Gamnis 10:37 Good question. I feel like I picked a major pretty early on — it never felt like a super conscious choice. I was one of the lucky people who just felt like I knew that was the direction I wanted to go in. I really nailed that down a little later in high school, because I was involved in theater a lot, and something told me theater wasn’t exactly my place, but something adjacent to that would be. My way of reaffirming that film would be a good place for me was deciding to just make a short film — I gathered some of my friends and made a little film, and I absolutely fell in love with the process. I was like, “Yep, this is what I want to do.” And I just kept doing it, and here we are. I’m still very happy with it now.

Paul Beckermann 11:33 I should ask a follow-up question to that — film, what exactly is that for someone listening who maybe doesn’t understand what a film major is?

Kailey Gamnis 11:43 There are a lot of different types of film programs. A lot of them are known more as film studies, where you do a lot of watching films and analyzing them. My program specifically is more filmmaking — I’ve learned basically every aspect of it, from pre-production, writing scripts, making schedules, making budgets, to production — how to work camera gear, how to direct, how to record sound — and then also how to edit films. So I’ve been taught how to make a film from start to finish over the course of my program, which has been very cool. I think it’s also applicable to a lot of different things, which has been exciting to discover, because knowing how to record stuff is very important in the modern day. Knowing how to make a video is applicable in so many ways outside of just filmmaking.

Paul Beckermann 12:45 Yeah, films are everywhere. So, based on your experience, what advice would you give to a new college student trying to figure out what they want to do? Any suggestions?

Kailey Gamnis 12:59 I would say don’t stress too much about it. I mean, obviously there’s always room to change your mind, but I also think thinking about it too logistically can sometimes hinder you a little bit, because I’m a believer that if you’re looking at a choice like that from just a database perspective — what’s going to make me the most money, what’s going to give me the lifestyle I want, what’s going to give me everything I want — you might end up being really unhappy, and I don’t think that’s good for anybody. Some people are okay with that, and I respect that a lot — if you just want a job that lets you live the life you want outside of your career, I think that’s great. But I also think if you know in your heart there’s something you want to do, even if it isn’t what you feel like you should do, it’s better to just go for it.

Paul Beckermann 14:01 You’ve got a lot of “follow your heart” in your answers, I hear.

Kailey Gamnis 14:06 Exactly. Yes, that’s my main thing, I guess.

Winston Benjamin 14:12 I’m kind of selfishly excited about this episode, and the reason is — my nephew Daniel has, for the last year and a half, been trying to figure out making the choice to go to film school. So this is going to be an off-script question, because I’m going to force him to listen to this — I want him to hear someone go through the journey, you know what I’m saying?

One of the things he’s worried about is that he started too late — he’s just getting into it, trying to figure out what he wants. He went to one school, got his AA, and now he’s trying to figure out his bachelor’s. Based on your experiences with the choices you’ve made, what advice would you give someone starting their journey in film, or trying to figure out their next stage in life — whether that’s college entrance or otherwise? I want him to hear someone tell him he’ll be okay. I know he will, but it doesn’t sound the same coming from his uncle.

Kailey Gamnis 15:51 That’s very fair. Going into freshman year, after thinking about doing this for so long and then suddenly doing it, I think there’s always going to be a little bit of a gap between your reality and your expectations. But I think standing by your choice, if you have a gut feeling it’s going to work out, is really important. And — I don’t want to keep saying “follow your heart” — not everything you love is going to be something you want to do for the rest of your life, but I think you can make a career out of anything if you really work at it. Film is one of those things that, like I said, can be applied to so much else, and you gain so many skills from it that you can apply elsewhere. So in a situation like that, I think sometimes you just have to go do it to really figure out what you want to do and where you fit into that.

I went into film school wanting to be a screenwriter — that was my main focus — and now that could not be further from what I want to do. I fell in love with just being behind a camera, and I never expected that to be the case. So, yeah, you’ve got to be bold sometimes.

Winston Benjamin 17:14 Yes.

Paul Beckermann 17:15 That’s a T-shirt, Winston, isn’t it? “Got to be bold sometimes.”

Kailey Gamnis 17:19 Sometimes you just gotta do it.

Winston Benjamin 17:22 You just gotta — and here’s a secondary thing, because my family are immigrants. You said earlier, “Make a choice where you’re going to be healthy, be able to survive your life,” and all these other things. I know my brother isn’t saying “don’t do it,” and I know my sister-in-law isn’t saying “don’t do it,” but for parents who have kids going into artistic, creative fields and are worried about their kids’ potential for future life choices — as someone who’s making it and about to make that next step post-college — what advice would you have for parents whose kids are trying to go into something that seems outside the norm, like a creative space? If that makes sense.

Kailey Gamnis 18:16 Yeah, I’ve seen that a lot, especially in high school. I heard from so many people saying, “I really want to do this, but my parents want me to do something else” — which is totally fair; every parent just wants their child to be successful. But I’ve been very surprised at the number of people I know who have gone into creative fields — theater majors, music majors, art majors — who have come out surprisingly successful and are reaching the end of their college career with a clear path in mind.

I think there’s a difference between wanting to go into a creative field because you just want to do your hobby all the time, and wanting to go into it because it’s truly what you feel is your calling. If that’s the case, you’ll find a way to succeed, even if it’s not exactly how you imagined it. If you can incorporate the thing you love into what you do every day, you’re going to be happy. And I think success looks different for everybody — it’s hard to be successful if you’re not happy. For a lot of people, success just means being able to live comfortably, be surrounded by people they love, and get to do what they love every day.

Paul Beckermann 19:42 Let’s talk a little more about success — let’s zoom in on academic success for a second. As somebody entering college, or exiting high school — you mentioned the collaboration piece, being able to work with others — but more broadly, what are the keys to academic success in college? What makes somebody successful versus somebody who just doesn’t cut it?

Kailey Gamnis 20:11 Honestly, the biggest thing — which is the thing most college students don’t want to hear — is attendance. Just going to your classes. I know too many people who just don’t go to class because attendance isn’t taken and their teacher’s not going to notice, so they just don’t go. While you can get by a lot of the time doing that, you’re paying so much money to be there, so you should be there.

Also, staying organized is really important, because in college you’ve usually got a lot more coming at you at once than in high school — a lot more assignments in a shorter period of time. Prioritizing, keeping track of when things are due, and listing everything out is really important, because sometimes you’re taking a lot of classes in one semester, and each of your teachers is going to give you work like they’re your only class.

Paul Beckermann 21:10 So it sounds like taking responsibility for yourself, maybe for the first time.

Kailey Gamnis 21:18 Yeah — you really don’t, unless you actively seek it out. You don’t have anybody else to hold you accountable. Your parents aren’t checking your grades all the time. Most of the time, your teachers aren’t going to reach out to you if they see you’re struggling. You kind of have to be your own advocate and make sure you know what you need to be doing and what’s most important.

Paul Beckermann 21:44 I like that — be your own advocate. That’s another one — you’re full of T-shirts today, Kailey’s T-shirts.

Kailey Gamnis 21:55 Yes. Let’s see if we can get a few more.

Winston Benjamin 21:57 Love it. So right now there’s a whole lot of “rah rah rah” — talking this, talking that, the positives, the negatives of AI. You’ve got older people saying, “Oh my God, this is a danger to the world,” and younger kids saying, “It’s the greatest thing,” and everybody’s using it as a shortcut. As a person in college, where AI is literally happening while you’re in school, how have you seen AI impacting the college experience? What insight do you have on that — your own personal experience, or anecdotes from friends?

Kailey Gamnis 22:38 Yeah, I feel like I’m in college at a very pivotal time for that. I didn’t have AI in high school — as a senior, it was just starting to come up, and people weren’t using it for schoolwork yet. Then I got to be a freshman in college, and suddenly we were starting to talk about it. It’s been a very interesting transition over the last four years, because it started out as, “AI is plagiarism, point blank, no doubt about it” — every teacher had a strict AI ban. I’ve definitely seen it start to be more accepted by faculty members as time has gone on, because I think people realized you can’t really keep people from using it — they’re always going to find a way around it.

So I’ve seen at least my instructors start to encourage us to be more open about it, communicate exactly how you’re using it, and use it in a way that doesn’t take away from your learning — or, in my case, my creative experience — because using AI to replace creativity is just counterintuitive. But it can be used in effective ways too, as a learning tool. I do see a bit of a problem with how heavily people are starting to rely on it, especially kids now coming into college who had AI in high school and used it in their formative years, and are now just kind of reliant on it. Having AI write your papers takes away so much from what you should be getting out of school.

Paul Beckermann 24:33 How about career-wise, in film? Are you seeing it impact your career area?

Kailey Gamnis 24:40 I don’t know about the film industry specifically, but in the marketing world — which I’ll probably talk more about later, from my internship this summer — I’ve seen it starting to be used a lot more heavily in advertising, because it’s cheaper and more convenient. You can use it to replace actors, replace a lot of labor for set design, generate entire ads — a lot of companies are starting to lean into that more. I can definitely see the benefit of it in a lot of ways, but it’s also scary — it’s a scary transition. I don’t really know how that’s going to end up affecting the film industry.

Actually, I’ve started to see films almost reverting the opposite way — maybe as a countermeasure. A lot of movies are starting to be shot on analog film again. I haven’t dug into that a ton, but I’m hoping that’ll be a little more resistant to it.

Paul Beckermann 25:50 Well, let’s talk about your internship. I understand you had an internship experience this summer — what was that like? What did you learn? How did you set that up? Tell us a little about it.

Kailey Gamnis 26:03 Yeah, I was an intern at Best Buy this past summer at their headquarters in Minnesota, which was a fantastic experience — I absolutely loved it. I found it through Handshake — I was applying to a lot of stuff on various job boards, ended up getting a couple of interviews, and got it. I felt very lucky to have gotten it, because it was an incredible experience. It was quite short — 10 weeks, which I didn’t think was nearly enough time — but their internship program is amazing. We had over 100 interns across all departments, and they have an early careers team whose whole job is dedicated to making sure interns have a good experience and have the resources they need throughout the program, which is fantastic.

I got to spend a lot of time working with the marketing department and their production team, helping make ads, helping edit stuff, and seeing the behind-the-scenes of what goes into making their big TV commercials, which was awesome. I also got to spend a lot of time networking, doing various career workshops, making connections with people, and learning how to update my resume and my LinkedIn profile. That was really awesome — there were a lot of good resources for career growth, which I think not every internship program has.

Paul Beckermann 27:50 So it sounds like you’d suggest it to folks in college looking for opportunities — internships are a good choice?

Kailey Gamnis 27:56 Definitely. I know not everybody has a great experience with internships — I knew a lot of people this summer who didn’t have the greatest experience, mostly because a lot of companies don’t have programs in place with a curriculum and things for interns to do. So I think a lot of interns end up not really feeling like they’re contributing much during their time there. But I think, in any case, being able to be present and see what goes on behind the scenes in whatever industry you’re in is really valuable — meeting people, making connections, and leaving yourself a potential opportunity for a full-time job at that company later. All of that is incredibly valuable, even if you don’t feel like you’re staying super busy while you’re there.

Winston Benjamin 28:56 So it’s coming up to the end — you’ve got a couple of months left. Four years blew by, and now it’s down to months. The joy, the excitement, and also, “Holy moly, I’m going to miss certain things” — all of that’s wrapped up right now. How are you preparing for graduation, and for pursuing a job in the career you’ve selected? What are your steps? What are you doing to process the feelings, and to prepare for all of that?

Kailey Gamnis 29:34 That’s a good question. It’s a very weird thing to wrap your head around, when your whole identity has been “student” for pretty much your entire life, to suddenly just be done with that — it feels daunting. Like, who am I if I’m not in school? But it’s something I’m very much looking forward to, and I think having an internship this summer, getting some time off from school, has made me feel a little more prepared.

Throughout this semester, I definitely want to take advantage of the resources I have as a student while I have them, because universities have a lot of great resources and people there to help you find a career, and using that while you can is very important. Also, continuing to build connections, network, and build your portfolio — I think that’s important, and that’s what I’m going to spend most of my time working on. It’s hard to say at this point where exactly I’ll be six months from now, but I’m very excited to figure it out.

Paul Beckermann 30:57 That sounds like almost another T-shirt: “I’m not sure where I’m going, but I’m very excited to figure it out.” I love that.

Kailey Gamnis 31:04 Yes. Yep.

Winston Benjamin 31:06 So we’re going to ask you to drop some things other than T-shirts. We’ve got a section called the Toolkit.

Transition Music with Rena’s Children 31:12 Check it out, check it out, check it out, check it out. What’s in the toolkit? What is in the toolkit? What’s in your toolkit? Check it out.

Winston Benjamin 31:23 What’s in your toolkit — thinking about what we can add to someone’s work life, or a student’s, so they can prepare for their next step. Paul, what are you throwing into the toolkit?

Paul Beckermann 31:40 Mine’s just a website — the Occupational Outlook Handbook from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. You can find it at bls.gov/ooh, for Occupational Outlook Handbook. You can browse through occupation groups, filter by median pay, entry-level education, job training, anticipated new jobs in that area, growth rate, things like that. It’s just a nice resource to filter through and see what’s out there for you. It won’t make the decision for you, but — going back to that quote at the beginning of the show — it can inform you, give you some information that might help you make a decision. So that’s what I’ve got.

Winston Benjamin 32:20 Got you. I’m going to steal the last bit of the conversation and say internships. Even though internships are a good way to find out what you like, they’re also a good way to find out what you don’t like. Trying it out, trying it on, and figuring out if you like it or not is actually a good way of determining if you want to stay with that. So I think internships are a really good tool. Kailey, what do you want to throw in? What could you tell a kid?

Kailey Gamnis 32:56 I was going to say internships too, so I’m going to think of a different one.

Winston Benjamin 33:00 Nah, you can double up.

Paul Beckermann 33:02 We can double up.

Winston Benjamin 33:04 We double up — it’s that important to double up.

Kailey Gamnis 33:08 Yes, it is very important. I would also say: just be brave and put yourself out there. That’s my mindset to hold on to, I think.

Winston Benjamin 33:23 And that’s a good tool, because not a lot of people have that.

Paul Beckermann 33:27 That’s a perfect way to jump into our One Thing.

Transition Music with Rena’s Children 33:30 It’s time for that one thing. It’s that one thing.

Paul Beckermann 33:40 Okay, One Thing time — our final takeaways. Winston will go first, I’ll follow, and then Kailey, you get the final message today. So, Winston, we’ll start with you — what’s your One Thing?

Winston Benjamin 33:57 Learn how to talk to authority. Learning how to talk to people who are in charge is going to be important, because you’re going to have to learn how to talk to your boss. Learning how to have a conversation with a teacher, your faculty members, anyone around you, is going to be important. I really took that away from what Kailey was saying about a skill she had to learn.

Paul Beckermann 34:22 I love that. I’m going to go with one of the many T-shirts Kailey offered us — the “follow your heart” theme. So often in the conversation, Kailey, I heard you saying you have to do what you’re passionate about, do the things that are really in your heart, and if you follow that, things are going to work out. It may not be the exact path you think you’re starting on, but if you keep following that passion, you’ll weave your way toward some resolution and success for yourself. That’s what I’m taking away. How about you — what do you want to leave our listeners with on this whole college/career discussion?

Kailey Gamnis 35:01 I guess, just don’t overthink it. It’s all going to work out in the end if you’re really committed to what you’re doing and you focus on what’s best for you. You’re going to figure it out, and it’s all going to be okay.

Winston Benjamin 35:17 See, that’s why we needed somebody who’s in the process — because being so far removed, you always hear, “You’ve got to make a choice, you’ve got to know what’s going on, you’ve got to be prepared.” But also, go through it. College is about learning, doing something, having a freshman-year journey, experiencing all of those things — and everything you take away really does help you prepare for your future.

I really appreciate you helping set the stage — for one, our parents, to support their kids in opening doors for wherever they go, be it Rome, be it wherever across the world or across the country, being open to letting their kids find the place that fits them, so they can find the success they want in their future. I truly appreciate you having this conversation, and selfishly, I’m going to make my nephew listen to this, because I want him to dream. I want him to dream. Thank you so much for your time and for letting our listeners engage with you.

Kailey Gamnis 36:22 Yeah, thank you guys so much for having me.

Paul Beckermann 36:24 And good luck with your last semester — you’re going to do great. Woo!

Kailey Gamnis 36:29 Thank you.

Rena Clark 36:31 Thanks for listening to Unpacking Education.

Winston Benjamin 36:34 We invite you to visit us at avidopenaccess.org, where you can discover resources to support student agency and academic tenacity, to create a classroom for future-ready learners.

Rena Clark 36:48 And remember, go forth and be awesome.

Winston Benjamin 36:52 Thank you for all you do.

Paul Beckermann 36:54 You make a difference.